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Post by bryant on Apr 10, 2014 5:40:23 GMT
We have short-ranged CQC characters. We have medium-ranged "zone" characters. Now, we should make some sort of long-ranged sniper character. In Smash Bros, most, if not all, of the characters primarily knock out their opponents using melee attacks. This focus makes certain matches pretty boring. Let's say that in one match, one of the players decides to run from combat and avoid other players. The other players fight it out, and eventually, the wimpy player is left with the other player. The wimpy player continues to evade the other player for a long time. This would not be an ideal situation. It would probably ruin the other player's fun and bore all of the losers. Now, what if the other player used a long-ranged character? The other player would be able to do heavy damage to the wimpy player, either defeating the wimpy player faster or forcing the wimpy player to actually battle the other player. Much more exciting! Pros: - Extremely far range
- Very powerful
- Fast projectile speed
Cons: - Mediocre/poor CQC/melee ability (a guy with a rifle will have a higher chance of winning against a sniper at medium/close range)
- Low maneuverability (A big sniper rifle is not easy to carry)
- Low attack speed (Unless the sniper rifle is semi-automatic, the attack cooldown will be limited to something like 1.5 seconds)
Recommended mechanics: - "Set up time"/Firing position: It's difficult to fire a sniper rifle while standing, and even more so to fire accurately from a standing position. Therefore, I propose that sniper characters should have to spend time to get into a position where they can fire. In this position, they cannot move and are almost defenseless, but they can use their most devastating attacks. Players will have the chance to aim their weapons. A targeting reticule should appear in the screen and allow the character to shoot in the specified area/direction. Characters could have restricted firing arcs. Attacking a character in "firing mode" will cause that character to immediately leave firing mode and induce some sort of penalty on the victim.
- Recoil: Shooting a bullet that is designed to pierce armor and travel at a high speed over long distances must require a large amount of energy. Portions of this energy are converted into kinetic energy. With so much kinetic energy released, controlling the gun must be very difficult. I propose that firing the ranged weapon repeatedly will temporarily reduce accuracy. The recoil function should be a Gaussian distribution.
Overall, I think a sniper character would be immensely fun to play. It would require tactics and thinking. Players would have to think carefully: where should I find a firing position? Where would be a good place to minimize ambushes?
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Post by maxfalcon on Apr 18, 2014 2:59:26 GMT
While in concept a good idea, I immediately think of how a character like this could easily get outclassed in 1v1 competitive play.
I do love my Zoners, don't get me wrong (Dhalsim in SF, Faust/Dizzy in Guilty Gear, and Ivysaur in Project M), but having to stance change just to fire sounds like it could get ugly quick unless it was some form of mild Super Move.
When I think of a sniper character I think of Zelda from Brawl Minus and how she has ghost hitboxes on most of her moves. Except that this character's hitboxes on attacks that use his rifle would be much thinner and constant.
The main thing about platform fighters is mobility, and I feel that a stance change that restricts that in exchange for a high-powered move could be extremely hindering. Especially since most of the stages seem to restrict camping as such in the first place (this isn't a shooter so your hiding options are pretty much limited to who's deciding to not attack you).
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Post by LIQUIDFGC on Apr 18, 2014 13:10:04 GMT
Then again, it's not saying it ain't possible; I just think the concept is flawed.
As a zoner myself(Radec, PSASBR, Taskmaster, Doom, Dormammu in UMVC3, ROB in Brawl), it's important to know that even if your character is a specialized zoner, you have to allow him safety at close range, and I think a stance change on a fast paced party brawler with small stages(at first) would be a massive reason not to use him.
Even if it's weak, some CQC for your zoner is totally necessary to stay alive in a 1v1 setting.
The stance change sounds good on paper, but in a 1v1 scenario it sounds risky. Besides hoping your opponent doesn't reach you, it has to be executed far enough from him that it doesn't get punished and possibly killed as a result.
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Post by maxfalcon on Apr 18, 2014 13:41:22 GMT
That and any half-decent player could easily either stay out of harm's way or shield. The only way I see that it could ever be landed in a 1v1 scenario is either when the opponent is in stun, after a hard read, or techroll. And even then that's kind of pushing it other than the stun.
It would have to be quick, or put in the place of special attacks, maybe select normals.
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Post by bryant on Apr 19, 2014 22:27:47 GMT
We're open to suggestions, so feel free to suggest any ideas for implementation. Here are some ideas that I thought of to increase CQC survivability: - Good evasion ability (rolls, sliding, etc.)
- Limited-use CQC (machine pistol/pistol which can only be used once and then will have to be "reloaded") that causes knockback
- High cooldown, short duration invulnerability ability (cloaking/hiding?)
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Post by maxfalcon on Apr 20, 2014 11:55:54 GMT
Just some quick ideas off the top of my head.
Jabs - Quick, probably uses a knife, but short range. Good for getting people out of his face however.
Tilts - A bit slower, up and down could use different guns (just somewhat laggy), good for putting more distance and poking where his other attack can't but not much else.
Aerials - A couple of these could use the rifle like how Zelda's aerials in Brawl Minus are, but without the ghost hitboxes and instead with 1 long thin one. However these will be laggy. Perhaps the more on-center you land a shot on somebody (as in piercing their hitbox 50/50 instead of 20/80), you could do a bit more damage.
Throws - Very good for setting up distance between himself and an enemy. Maybe even could lead to DI traps and snipe setups.
Specials - I'm not sure what all would be here so I kind of want to leave this one alone, but possibly he could set down a claymore and if he must have a sniping position it could be either hit the button and it fires a laggy aimable projectile or hold it and it does the same thing but you can move a little and delay the shot too.
Maybe also hiding in his ghillie suit for that cloak, as a shield (intangibility) that only lasts for a second or so with cooldown time in between uses. Like a longer-lasting sidestep dodge or possibly even a counter. That would be pretty silly.
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Post by JaredG on Apr 21, 2014 5:53:36 GMT
bryant & maxfalcon- To be honest, I wasn't a fan of Radec in PSABR, But if we were able to liven him up with a variety of fighting options that may be doable. I was thinking of like a Nathan Drake moveset character if we determine to work with the Serious Sam developer to bring their character into our game universe. Still iffy though. My favorite characters in Brawl are: Samus & Ness & Marth.
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Post by maxfalcon on Apr 21, 2014 5:58:21 GMT
bryant & maxfalcon- To be honest, I wasn't a fan of Radec in PSABR, But if we were able to liven him up with a variety of fighting options that may be doable. I was thinking of like a Nathan Drake moveset character if we determine to work with the Serious Sam developer to bring their character into our game universe. Still iffy though. My favorite characters in Brawl are: Samus & Ness & Marth. No idea who that guy is or what he plays like haha. I have a moveset for Sam pretty much made up already, in this one he plays more like Samus with some extra tools, heavier phyics, no z-air, and a worse recovery however. So I guess that's kinda oversimplifying it now that I think of it. x.x Ness was so fun, I used to main him back when I played Brawl. |
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Post by LIQUIDFGC on Apr 21, 2014 18:59:11 GMT
bryant & maxfalcon- To be honest, I wasn't a fan of Radec in PSABR, But if we were able to liven him up with a variety of fighting options that may be doable. I was thinking of like a Nathan Drake moveset character if we determine to work with the Serious Sam developer to bring their character into our game universe. Still iffy though. My favorite characters in Brawl are: Samus & Ness & Marth. The problem with a Nathan Drake moveset would be making sure you don't get any game breaking side effects from making it. Drake for the longest time had a stupid good gunloop(canceling AK to get stupid amounts of AP) with his AK attack, and even now it's considered a universally overpowered tool along with the slide(high blockstun, safety on block, comboable). just my two cents. The patch is widely said to have not nerfed him enough as well. This was from version 1.00, but you get the idea. |
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Post by maxfalcon on Apr 23, 2014 6:19:48 GMT
The problem with a Nathan Drake moveset would be making sure you don't get any game breaking side effects from making it. Drake for the longest time had a stupid good gunloop(canceling AK to get stupid amounts of AP) with his AK attack, and even now it's considered a universally overpowered tool along with the slide(high blockstun, safety on block, comboable). just my two cents. The patch is widely said to have not nerfed him enough as well. This was from version 1.00, but you get the idea. Oh my god that's so dumb... At least with a game that uses a % system things like that tend to fix themselves unless they have set knockback (wave/drillshining from Melee/Project M comes to mind), but it would still be something to be wary of if not only because of the range and holding potential due to all of the multi-hit moves. They'd all need to knock back a certain way after the multi-hit or something, but because there's no one similar to Nathan Drake in Smash it's hard to say. |
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Post by Philocypher on May 16, 2014 21:03:54 GMT
A Shiek like mechanic may be the best option for a balanced long distance character. The issue with them is that they tend to be overpowered at a distance but lacking in close range. The ability to switch from a close range to long range weapon may be the best option. It will take a bit of tweaking to find the right balance between the two modes, but it also makes the character playable in many situations rather than keeping at a distance. Finding a character that has this shouldn't be too much of a challenge.
Any thoughts on that?
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Post by maxfalcon on May 16, 2014 21:44:18 GMT
A Shiek like mechanic may be the best option for a balanced long distance character. The issue with them is that they tend to be overpowered at a distance but lacking in close range. The ability to switch from a close range to long range weapon may be the best option. It will take a bit of tweaking to find the right balance between the two modes, but it also makes the character playable in many situations rather than keeping at a distance. Finding a character that has this shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Any thoughts on that? So long as the character has a couple of short-range options it shouldn't be too bad. I personally love playing as glass-cannon zoning characters. It forces me to focus on playing keep-away and is just fun for me. Zelda in Project M is a good example of a long-distance zoner, as she has limited close-range options but is very good at shutting down approaches. Although in PM I main Ivysaur, who is a more mid-range zoner with way more combo potential. A weapon-switching mechanic could work well depending on what's wanted for this character however. But both playstyles should play as opposites and the switch itself should take some time. |
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Post by LIQUIDFGC on May 16, 2014 23:57:07 GMT
A Shiek like mechanic may be the best option for a balanced long distance character. The issue with them is that they tend to be overpowered at a distance but lacking in close range. The ability to switch from a close range to long range weapon may be the best option. It will take a bit of tweaking to find the right balance between the two modes, but it also makes the character playable in many situations rather than keeping at a distance. Finding a character that has this shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Any thoughts on that? So long as the character has a couple of short-range options it shouldn't be too bad. I personally love playing as glass-cannon zoning characters. It forces me to focus on playing keep-away and is just fun for me. Zelda in Project M is a good example of a long-distance zoner, as she has limited close-range options but is very good at shutting down approaches. Although in PM I main Ivysaur, who is a more mid-range zoner with way more combo potential. A weapon-switching mechanic could work well depending on what's wanted for this character however. But both playstyles should play as opposites and the switch itself should take some time. That template has precedent in Emmett Graves from PSAS(sort of). He has the ability to switch between a plasma launcher, a shotgun, or his standard rifle. Rifle is a low damage, multi hit projectile that can be aimed in several directions and has an aerial not unlike that one Samus' attack which I forget it's input(the one where she fires her Arm Cannon at a short range 3 times tilting downwards). Shotgun is a high damage, low range projectile to be aimed in several directions as well. It also provides a sticky grenade projectile for zoning control. Plasma Launcher(not it's name, idc) is a high range, moderate damage projectile that goes very far distance, explodes on contact and can be aimed before firing by holding the respective attack button. It also provides a bouncing grenade projectile that explodes on contact. To switch, Emmett needs to summon crates with his weapons from the sky. I do think that your sniper will differ, but there's a template. EDIT #2: Exemplifying Emmett's playstyle. Sure, it's 2v2, but it's close to what @philocypher suggests. SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTIONYou'll want to focus on 1P. |
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